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OK. I'm going to put it all together again and make some suggestiosn...

"Baseball ready" and "good sized crowd" are essentially meaningless by themselves and tenuous in the context of indy ball. There's no context for them in general unless you tie them to a league. And, in all these discussions, Deformity Field will always be appropriate.

Let's try creating a term like "NoL Viable"facility and give it a real definition. An alternate name/acronym would be "3KBP" which abbreviates:

1. Minimum 3K Fixed Seating Capacity
   
2. Beer & Concession Sales
   
3. Adequate Parking & Access
   

This is a "minimally viable" facility arrangement with little concern for anything about the field conditions, sightlines, clubhouses, business offices, or even local population. It describes what should be a successful franchise. These have been the minimum criteria of the league going back to 1991/2.

3K Fixed Seating

The first definition has two critical parts to it. First, the ballpark must hole a minimum of2-3K people to cover operating expenses. Anything less and the club will not make money and eventually fail regardless of the rest; the history of the failed franchises falling below the "2K Line of Death" confirm it. Certainly clubs can (and should) have higher capacity upwards to 5-7K depending on the market to allow greater sales; those seats can be berm, patios, or even SRO areas.

The fixed seating part is equally important. . The NoL isn't going to try the lame CoBL standards and start using low capacity high school fields and loan fans lawn chairs to watch games. Nor does this require suites or special seating of any sort. The safe assumption (thanks to building codes) is that if you have 3K fixed seating it's certain that you also have to have the expected infrastructure in it to handle those crowds (such as adequate wash rooms).

Another related assumption is that the local population around the facility is 100K+ so that you aren't trying to get more than 3% of everyone in the area to show up each night. The league is already showing signs of loosening the suburban criteria with locations like Wichita or even Marion.

Beer Sales

As has been been repeatedly discussed, Beer sales are a requirement. This eliminates many college facilities and those in "dry counties" (something unheard of in NoL territory but not uncommon in the south). The assumption here is that if you can sell beer, you can also sell non-alcoholic beverages and food --if only from a portable grill.

Adequate Parking

This option is almost assured when you have 3K fixed seating but not guaranteed. The key aspect is that if you draw good crowds they're not spending lots of time trying to get in/out of the parking lot.

After looking at the facility, there's the question of the viability of any venue in question --and assuming reasonably effective management.

Short & Long Term Viability

For the NoL to expand these should be --and almost certainly are-- the current standards. The league can hardly afford to be any pickier. Once you have these minimum criteria the next criteria of "short" and "long term" viability. This is where the ownership's business plan and ability to market the team come into play.

Obviously anyone with a new ballpark expects long term success or they could never raise the funds to build a ballpark in the first place. No club with a new ballpark in the NoL has failed (yet). On the other handRobstown is a case example of what can happen even when you build a new ballpark --and serious competition moves in and undermines your fan base.

Viability Examples

Both Deformity Field and Midway Stadium are/were "long term" viable from a facility perspective. Deformity was going to be a problem due to the lease arrangement (I believe Sam was going to have problems renewing it) and all agree it was terrible. Midway remains viable and profitable though not ideal. Both can be labeled successes since both clubs survived and continue to flourish. And these are the only multi-use facilities ever used in the NoL.

I'd say that Wade Stadium and, to a lesser degree, Port Arthur Stadium were "long term viable" from a facility perspective. Thunder Bay started off so strong it's amazing that they didn't survive. Duluth struggled for years, had some success and some true die-hard fans

Short term viability came into play with locations like Mayo Park and Warner Park. Mayo actually still doesn't have adequate parking but NWL crowds (for them) aren't all that large (1,400 avg.). Rochester's situation (ownership mainly supposedly) were what probably doomed it more than anything. If you can't get any interest with a winning club like Simi always creates, you don't deserve a franchise.

Mad City Success -- the exception that proves the rule?

Warner Park is the better story given that it failed many times over (the NoL was the last of the failed pro clubs). The assumption/rumor had always been that Madison would build a new ballpark for the Black Wolf and Warner Park was a temporary location until that happened. Unfortunately for the Wolves the city never budged, so they were "domesticated" in Lincoln into the Saltdogs.

Now... the real question is would the Black Wolf have been as successful as the Mallards are (averaging 6,047 in 2007 which would put them second behind Winnipeg) if their approach (and ownership) was used. In Mad City the line was --and apparently is-- if you can break into the student market you'll succeed. It's hard (for me) to say if the numerous all you can drink decks have got the college kids making the drive to the other side of Lake Mendota.

So what'll happen (next year)?

Whatever the case, it get the impression the league really wants to get back to 8 clubs again badly. Not badly enough to try Saskatchewan again, but it will be open to any opportunity like Wichita, Topeka and St. Joe. In the case of the latter there were rumors that a local owner, turned down by the AA, was talking seriously with Griffith about joining the NoL.

In that particular case the question would be would local ownership be the critical difference as it appeared to be in Madison? Could the NoL "show up" the AA by succeeding where they failed. Certainly "The Phil" with the limited upgrades it got from the Blacksnakes would start in a better state than it did three years ago.

Competition

Competition with the FL and NWL will continue to make expansion difficult. The NoL will not be returning to any of its old locations now that NWL is firmly planted in them. Most of the marginal locations (marginal for the NoL) have already been taken over by that league too (St. Cloud, Green Bay, Eau Claire, La Crosse, etc.).

When it comes to the next tier of pro facilities, that's where the FL comes in and wins the locations. The (historically) lower operating costs and stability of the FL make their sales pitch an easier sell to most new markets. The FL is actively working on new franchises in Chicago, So. Michigan and Illinois and has been for much longer.

As the NoL looks west into Missouri and Kansas (etc.) it runs into the AA. There too they've lost (Wichita) and have many of the same issues as with the other leagues.

The fact is there simply aren't any truly viable locations left that haven't been picked over by the MiLB, FL, AA or NWL. Only the MiLB is not expanding and its crumbs are about the only place where an existing facility comes into play (again Wichita is the example). And like its parents, the many have shiny new facilities and/or long term leases. The only exception on the horizon is Omaha with the O-Royals continuing to be unhappy with Rosenblatt and plans for the new downtown ballpark.

All of this is why the NoL is reduced to (forced into) pitching new ballparks. By using business connections they can attempt to get an exclusive deal that avoids head-to-head competition. Talking about "baseball ready" holding a "good size" crowd don't reflect the reality that there really is nothing left that fits.

Ugly alternatives

After that it the only other options are to fade into those other leagues in one form or another.

Interleague play with the AA has already been shot down (again) this year. Interleague with the FL doesn't make sense since the roster rules are so different (and what FL clubs want to drive to Winnipeg or Fargo). The rumor that never goes away about the Chicago clubs bolting for the FL reflects a (remote) possibility of what might happen. All of the AA would like KCK as a location; Fargo and Winnipeg are tougher fits (unless the AA would grow large enough to completely eliminate inter-divisional play).


So... we're left waiting to see if anything (ever) happens for NoL expansion. The current six are (on paper) as stable as can be expected with "new ballparks," solid attendance figures and tolerable travel distances. I think we may see this configuration for several years to come.

you say that the NoL once tried to go into Saskatchewan?

The "again" was probably a poor choice of words. It was on their radar last year with lots of talk about trying to expand there --of course that was mainly the AB clubs. My point was they aren't talking about it any more since they're not "so desperate" to try another distant location and rundown ballpark.

As for Cairns Field, it's been posted before and isn't needed. It's an old (dead) topic that been covered before including in this topic.