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klrgumby |
First stadium in America to go cashless |
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I was reading on their team website that that the Wingnuts and LD Stadium will be the first stadium in America to go cashless, where you have to pay and do
everything else at the stadium with a card. They will have pre=paid catrds and they can give you cash back at the end of the night if you want it. Its
definitely a different idea, one where people can go through faster, but with kids and the like having to get a card paid for or their parents could also pose
a threat from fans wanting to do it.
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nlfan |
Destined for a quick death... | ||
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Dumb Idea!
If it works like that I think that will die a quick death (like the Saints attempt to have people order food and beverage from their seats by cell phone). Unless people in Wichita are already used to this concept somewhere else it'll just tick everyone off since it means standing in one line to buy/recharge a card then wait in another to get your stuff. Then there's the question if it would apply to strolling vendors --will they have machines to process the payments --AND the tips???? The question of tips is one that might have some impact to any volunteer groups staffing concessions since there "won't be any change to keep." And there's all the infrastructure for handling it --ready for a power outage or system crash? How much was on that card? Are they good for all season? From a business perspective it makes sense (central location of all cash for safety, capture large quantities up front with little/no need to deliver) but it's likely to be rather unworkable and unwanted. The first source of frustration may be the denominations any pre-paid card has on it. Can you tell a kid with $2.50 ready to buy a hot dog, "Sorry son, you have to buy a $5 card before I can sell to you?" It would be fine for them to take credit cards (everywhere) but forcing people to manage and track their money and cards like that will only complicate what should be a simple night at the ballpark. And does the team really want the last memory fans before they leave to be standing in line to cash out their card? Especially after a rain out or a big crowd game like fireworks?
Last Edited By: nlfan
23-Feb-08 02:26:19.
Edited 1 times.
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nlfan |
Doing the due dilligence | ||
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Official Coverage
Here's the official press release: Lawrence Dumont goes Cashless. And they linked to a video from Channel 12. The idea that this will actually speed concessions is a complete joke to me. The problem in most concession stands is food preparation not making change. The concept of people punching a keypad to place an order has never worked in retail either (I recall the ill-fated attempt by Mickey D's to do just that --leading to the most absurd interaction where no one makes eye contact since both customer and clerk stare at the screen on the counter). Clearly these pitches to the public are coming straight from the vendor. The Vendor Who Made the Sale The vendor who got the Wingnuts is Total Venue Control LLC. The website is not terribly impressive (or reassuring) and does not have a long list of major clients or press releases in spite of being in business for several years. In fact, there are none of the recent "success stories" one would expect to see for such a company making this pitch... perhaps Wichita is the (first) test market for a sports franchise? They don't quote or even suggest what sort of return to expect; this assumes they actually have reliable numbers to report and simply choose to keep them private except for prospective clients. The only real success story is a video showing how it worked at huge football (soccer) stadiums in Europe, not the US. Having been to Old Trafford (home of Manchester United of the EPL) twice I can see why that would be a good idea at such venues --between football hooligans and the sheer number of people there are considerably higher risks. I don't think anyone is expecting Wingnuts fans to be in the same country, let alone the same league. Unfortunately, in a way, the video undermines its own pitch by pointing out that it works well in Holland --because the Dutch are already used to using a similar system for many other purchases in stores. That should be contrasted with the local "oldtimer" the TV station found in a bowling alley. Neither the culture of the city (or US) or the scale of operation in Wichita make this investment seem appropriate. Though I agree that this approach should reduce employee theft but if your employees aren't trustworthy smart cards aren't going to reduce losses. If that's what you want, replace concessions with vending machines which won't steal from you. If you're so smart, what should they do? If concession lines are long (as they've been at Midway Stadium from the very beginning) the solution is MORE concessions and more options. A mix of vending machines with water and soda, maybe candy; beer patio; increased strolling vendors; more temporary game day concession stands & BBQ. LDS has a wide concourse area and open spaces that could be adapted (and scaled) to meet projected crowds. This is what nearly everyone does, its scalable, relatively inexpensive and does not require major capital investments and infrastructure. Bottom line: I think it's safe to say that if this was such a "great idea" for the US, Wichita and the Winguts would not be the first to implement it. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it will work as advertised. But I'll place my bet that they'll kill if off before the season is over and/or supplement it with cash (and quietly phase it out). I hope that they got a great deal on the system (and support!) from TVC since I'm sure they'll have many bugs to work out of the system (including having a contingency plan for paying with cash if the system isn't fully operational during preseason or opening day). Whatever the case I guess I should make plans to get to Wichita quickly to get one of the collectible payment cards that are promised. Those may inaugural season collectibles.
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dittrich1414 |
Cashless | ||
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Are they doing this at the hockey arena also? JPD
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nlfan |
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There's a good question. BTW: Have you (ever) investigated this technology for your club(s)?
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dittrich1414 |
Cashless | ||
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Not TOTALLY cashless. We've had some proposals for handling of credit cards by remote devices to allow fans to use them with vendors, or at concession stands without hard phone lines, etc. We have not done that as yet, but the day is coming. However, I think TOTAL cashless would meet with a ton of complaints from fans. There are just too many of us old fogeys still ambulatory and not willing to dispense with the idea of using good old greenbacks straight up! JPD |
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nlfan |
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Old Fogeys like that easy enough to find. The TV crew easily found one on their trip to the bowling alley. He certainly looked like one of the sort I expect to
see at LDS this summer.
Adding the credit card options makes a lot of sense. Handheld card systems are all over Europe --though they do use Smart Cards and not magstripe technology. Oh well... as I said. If they have a collectible series of cash cards, it'll be one more thing to add to the collection and website. |
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BarkeepND |
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as someone who spends plenty of time completing transactions at a till, it always irks me when the credit card companies claim using a credit card is somehow
quicker then cash. Give me a line full of people with cash any day, i'll clear it out in no time. But running the card, sigining the slip, adding the tip,
all take up time and if they think going cashless is going to simplify things for their guests i think they are mistaken. There is a reason civilization has
used money to pay debt for so long, it works.
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klrgumby |
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Well nlfan, I plan to hopefully be there for their opening series and I am sure i will end up getting a card. I'll get two and save you one if they should
decide to go away quicker than anticipated.
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HorseRaider |
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I read this and laughed, because the first thing that crossed my mind was those idiotic self-serve checkout lanes in Walmart and most major grocery store
chains around here where I live. I absolutely hate those things! I'm with JD, getting so I am using good old green Washingtons, Lincolns and Jeffersons to
pay for stuff out of pocket at hand more than whipping out the old debit card. I guess I'm gettng to be an old fogey, too but I don't
care.
I do remember using this type of prepaid card system when I went to the Final Four in San Antonio four years ago. You could buy these prepaid concession
cards for $25 and you got to use a special "VIP" line at the stands for those who had these cards. I admit it worked pretty well, given you had
50,000 people there at the Alamodome and very long concession lines at halftime and between games for the regular folks and hardly anyone in the VIP lanes. I
wouldnt mind a similar system in place at games but still be allowed to pay cash if you wanted to.
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pleasevoteforpedro |
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Good point about the lineups shifting from the concessions to the card stations. I'd bet that it's also a revenue generator for the club, for how many
of those cards with only a handful of change left on them will be redeemed at the conclusion of the game? Usually as soon as the game ends, people head for the
exits - and the parking lots, bus stops, bike racks, etc. No one wants to wait in ANOTHER line after it's over, particularly if it's just to get your
dime back. Add all those dimes and quarters and nickels up over the course of a season; I wonder what the club is budgeting to make on it?
Canada is a pretty card-happy country - we use direct debit everywhere and people carry less and less cash all the time. However, as Barkeep points out, it doesn't really save any time in the long run, and some stores - notably Tim Horton's coffee - don't do debit, and they are very open about not doing so in order to maintain the speed of service. You want a Timmy? Bring cash. If the ballpark stopped accepting cash though, I'd imagine both the customers and the beer vendors would see a decrease in sales...and tips. |
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nlfan |
And it's not the same kind of card... | ||
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Keep in mind that we're not talking about a real debit card -- the kind of card you use for a variety of purposes at numerous stores and locations. This
is one-stop card only usable at one location. This will not have the full support and power of a major credit card network's infrastructure to handle the
myriad issues that can (and do) come up.
This is where the "debit cards are increasingly popular" argument completely (and IMO totally) falls apart. If I use plastic, I want to use very few (maybe only one) card to simplify my transactions --and choose it myself. I don't want to have to use one for groceries, one for gas, one for clothes, and especially not one just for concessions at the ballpark. Few major retailers (such as gas stations or department stores) offer credit cards that aren't aligned with a major network (Visa, MasterCard, Novus, AMEX, etc.) anymore. If I use a special card, it's because I want to get "cash back," frequent flier miles, Disney Bucks, or other and I'll choose to do that --or use cash. The Wingnuts are making that decision for their fans and will likely (and probably quickly) be asked to give up on it for that reason alone (even before they get to all the other issues). There is a strong move away to a cashless society everywhere, including the US, but it's based upon a universal credit/debit card model. The most obvious sign of these changes is the demise of personal checks. Most restaurants no longer take them and even fast food places are taking plastic instead. These are the trends that are happening, not moving to a closed credit system. |
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pleasevoteforpedro |
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I understand what the card is - my point was merely to underline the fact that the card, whichever variety it is, doesn't necessarily make things faster.
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nlfan |
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And we agree (since we've both said as much above).
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