Roster page tells an interesting story

Author	Comment
BillyChapel14	payroll	#21	[-]
Posts: 428 (25-Dec-07 04:57:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	AAA forever wrote: The problems aren't gone...they are still there. The organization is run badly and that has gotten around. Finding players who don't mind if they get paid on time may be a problem. Harry, I never heard of missed paycheck from any player from the last couple season. I did hear about how they wanted to combine the last two checks. Instead of being paid on the Friday before the end of the season and then again two weeks later, if the players waited for Monday or Tuesday after the season, the players would get both checks in one payment. From what I heard, this sent some of the player into a tissy and threw a temper tantrum in Joliet and refuse to take the field if they were not paid on Friday. They were paid on that Friday on time, but my understanding, those threw the fit or did not take the field, you won't be back this season. So the question is Harry, what paycheck were late? Enlighten us please! Inquiring minds want to know
BarkeepND		#22	[-]
Posts: 377 (25-Dec-07 05:03:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	when ownership doesn't care about the integrity of the game or treating players like the profesionals they are (even if they aren't getting top dollar) the problems will continue. It's not a matter of who is manning the xerox machine, or even who the manager is. The problems in Schaumburg can all be traced back to an owner who doesn't care about baseball, or winning (in fact he would rather NOT win because that would cost him money). As long as fans put money in his bank account he thinks the Flyers are a success. Perhaps he's right, but fans of the Flyers deserve better (and players who don the Flyer uniform deserve WAY better).
JohnU11		#23	[-]
Posts: 61 (25-Dec-07 05:28:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think a lot of minor-league owners (see the AirHogs link on the AA board) have bought into the idea that it doesn't matter about winning, just about the fun. It is hard to argue that minor-league ball is more an entertainment venue than winning on the field, though I would never approach the players with that notion. Maybe the guy with the microphone between innings is trying to shill groceries for the sponsors but nobody can convince me that the fans who show up don't want their local heroes to succeed. (I did use that word "heroes" intentionally.) It's sho-nuff true that the folks who sell the tickets at the front gate have no control over most of the administrative decisions. I know that the majority of fans who come to the Steel Yard are interested in what goes on between the white lines. That was a little easier the past three years, to be sure, and it helped that most of the key players had come back as a form of name recognition. That may also be why they did come back, because of ownership that cared. I guess it goes hand in hand. The front office has to care about its players as much as it does about the people who buy the nacho chips. Let's hope they straighten this out. The Northern League is important to many of us, and as I have written ... I support anything that keeps the RailCats alive. That is important to NW Indiana, lots more so than the casual fans are probably inclined to believe. Happy holidays to all. John
BillyChapel14		#24	[-]
Posts: 429 (25-Dec-07 05:55:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BarkeepND wrote: . The problems in Schaumburg can all be traced back to an owner who doesn't care about baseball, or winning (in fact he would rather NOT win because that would cost him money). As long as fans put money in his bank account he thinks the Flyers are a success. Perhaps he's right, but fans of the Flyers deserve better (and players who don the Flyer uniform deserve WAY better). I'm sorry, you act like Schaumburg is the only team that cares about the bottom line. HELLO! It's every team, period. Be it a minor league or a major league team, it's about the money. I learned long (being a season ticket holder foir 21 years) that the Chicago Bulls don't care about the fans or winning any thing, it about how many bodies they can put in the seats and how much money they can pray out of the wallets. I've heard for players on other NOL teams and they have said the same thing, the team only cares about is bodies on the seats. I'm sure if you ask any GM or owner, what you would prefer, a winning team and small attendance or a lousy team and a packed house, they will take a packed house. The only real difference I have seen from the MLB and the NOL is that winning does not translate to better ticket sales, look at Gary, the best of the NOL but the worst in attendance. So let's not act like any other team in the NOL is a better place to play for then another, in all teams the players are meat! The only difference between teams might be the type of fans, some team that have nothing else in the area, and fans demand a winning team, where in larger markets the fans don't care for winning, they look for a fun night out. Schaumburg has it's issue, especially with it's vendors but it's owners are not much different than any other in the NOL
BillyChapel14		#25	[-]
Posts: 430 (25-Dec-07 05:57:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	JohnU11 wrote: I know that the majority of fans who come to the Steel Yard are interested in what goes on between the white lines. You'll have to point them out to me next season!
JohnU11		#26	[-]
Posts: 62 (25-Dec-07 06:06:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Cats averaged around 3,400 (tickets sold, not actual bodies I suppose.) Weeknights are not as good but they draw 4,000 for the Friday and Saturday games. Gary and its environment is a tough sell, since most of the fans are fighting a lot of stereotyping. I spend a lot of time wandering the park and chat with the fans. Most of them are more interested in the game than the balloon fights. So, Gary wasn't last in attendance by any stretch and the tally goes up every year. I'd say we have 2,000 hard-core fans, no small miracle for Gary, which has a ballpark anyway thanks to a miracle of some kind. And yes I would agree that the bottom line is what the corporation is after. Even if the team sucked, the attendance would probably be about the same, so we'll take the winning that went with it.
BarkeepND		#27	[-]
Posts: 378 (25-Dec-07 06:11:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So let's not act like any other team in the NOL is a better place to play for then another, in all teams the players are meat! certainly the bottom line is important to every team. But there ARE teams who focus on making a fun time for everyone while putting a quality baseball team on the field, and respecting the game of baseball. Gary, Winnipeg, and Fargo are three of those organizations in the NoL. The fact that these organizations have players returning year after year after year while Schaumburg (and quite a few other organizations in Indy ball) have near complete turnover of rosters each season is a pretty clear indication that not all organizations treat their on field employees the same. Baseball is a business and often times business decisions are made (by every organization) that lead to 'raw deals' for individual players, but there are still organizations out there that treat their players fairly and respectfully. Last Edited By: BarkeepND 25-Dec-07 06:15:27. Edited 1 times.
JohnU11		#28	[-]
Posts: 63 (25-Dec-07 06:36:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Gotta agree with barkeepND. The players are naturally only there for a short while. Some of them turn their businesses over to their wives for the summer while they chase the white angel of hope. Others, like Yepez, saw his wife and kids once or twice all season long. Tagert, at Gary, was sensitive to that, I am told. (He had to take three days "off" for his own father's funeral.) Willie Glen didn't come back this past summer because he just likes Gary. He liked what Tagert had to offer and he said he respected the club's management enough to give it another whirl. Hopefully that will pay off for him in pro ball. I can't criticize anybody's management since I don't have enough information to evaluate it. I would hate to see Schaumburg turn into the doormat of the league because it can't find decent talent. I am not posting anything here that indy-league junkies don't know, I suppose.
BillyChapel14		#29	[-]
Posts: 431 (25-Dec-07 11:07:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BarkeepND wrote: But there ARE teams who focus on making a fun time for everyone while putting a quality baseball team on the field, and respecting the game of baseball. Gary, Winnipeg, and Fargo are three of those organizations in the NoL. It's funny how 2 of the 3 "quality" teams had the worst attendance in the NOL. Even with a new manager and new players Schaumburg was able to draw about 800 more people per game than Fargo and Gary did. If you don't think the owners of these team don't care about those extra 36,800 tickets and the money those ticket generates, you are sadly mistaken. It's always quantity over quality in the minor leagues. BarkeepND wrote: The fact that these organizations have players returning year after year after year while Schaumburg (and quite a few other organizations in Indy ball) have near complete turnover of rosters each season is a pretty clear indication that not all organizations treat their on field employees the same. Let's get your facts straight, The Flyers have had a house cleaning the last two years it not like the do it every year. 2006, the players were given an an opportunity to leave via a release or trade, all but one took it, yes the main reason was because of the FanClub issue other left because they wanted to go with Andy. But they were given a chance to leave, The Flyers could have held on to some unhappy players to appease some fans, but it makes sense to clear the slate for a new manager. 2007 team was cleaned out because of the way they acted. So why keep these players, they weren't winning with them, why keep them? You got a cancer, you cut it out. But unlike 2006 we still have some players returning, and those player returning are the type that play "quality" baseball. Also, if you know Steve and they way he manage, even if we had a much better season last year without the "problem children", we would still see a big turn over in players, that's the way Steve is. BarkeepND wrote: but there are still organizations out there that treat their players fairly and respectfully. Not every team in the NOL has a slush fund like fargo
JohnU11		#30	[-]
Posts: 65 (25-Dec-07 11:18:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't want to keep harping on it, but the general logistics of Gary makes 3,400 fans a bonanza. The bulk of the potential fan base is hardened to the reality that Gary has a reputation of being one of the most crime-riddled cities in America. While that's a perception, I have talked to lots of people who say "Is it safe?" at the ballpark? With that battle to fight, getting a crowd into Gary is a minor miracle, regardless of how the players are treated. The fans who have decided to "risk it" have found the trip worthwhile and keep going back. I can't speak for Fargo or Winnipeg or Kansas City. I just know that the Steel Yard is in Gary and Gary has a bad reputation. The fact that the city has a team at all defies any amount of common sense to the outsider. Most of Gary, BTW, isn't any more dangerous than glorious downtown Chicago.
BarkeepND		#31	[-]
Posts: 379 (25-Dec-07 11:29:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Not every team in the NOL has a slush fund like fargo please feel free to provide one ioda of evidence of said slush fund. Fargo DOES treat it's players with considerably more respect then Shaumburg, just one example.. Fargo doesn't serve bologna sandwiches as a post game 'spread'. Ask Kirk Pierce about the respect Schaumburg gave him. I know chicagoland has a long history of sports franchises that would rather pocket profits then field winning teams, and many fans that continue to loyally support these organizations (though that loyalty isn't reciprocated). Sadly it seems the Flyers continue this legacy.
JohnU11		#32	[-]
Posts: 66 (25-Dec-07 18:36:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Billy: I am hearing two messages from you. You are criticizing the team on one hand, defending it on the other. Housecleaning twice in two years may not be an annual ritual, but it's signaling a trend. Let's identify that as Problem A -- FanClub. In principle, the solution is simple: Find a decent manager, coaches, players and compete on the field. I have no idea how difficult this is to achieve. Alleging most players are reasonably civil, one should think they could get along. That would identify Problem B, the "rotten apple." A quality manager should be able to exorcise such a demon fairly early in the process. If the check ain't in the mail, though, those 36,800 extra fans you are boasting about ... well, it's about $400,000 that somebody ought to be accountable for. That would be Problem C. I do not want to explore the future for a franchise that can't or won't manage its administration. In America, going out of business isn't unheard of. Let's hope for better in Schaumburg.
AAA forever	re: payroll	#33	[-]
Posts: 18 (26-Dec-07 08:57:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	First of all, I am not Harry but it is funny that you think so. Second, apparently you have not heard everything regarding paychecks last year. You do not have all of your facts. All that Barkeep says is true regarding ownership in Schaumburg-it could not have been said better. Are you also forgetting that this owner doesn't pay his bills in a timely manner? He has not one ounce of integrity.
Paic79		#34	[-]
Posts: 8 (26-Dec-07 09:54:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	AAA, the payroll incident took place once. Do you have knowledge of it happening any other time? When problems regarding a teams solvency, or attempting to violate the terms of contracts, it becomes a league matter. The last thing the NL wants is rumors or stories of one of its franchises not meeting payroll. That affects teams ability to sign players, and turns it into a negative PR matter that can create mass chaos.
aawatcher		#35	[-]
Posts: 105 (26-Dec-07 10:58:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As I follow NLFan now for some time, there are some things that I have found to come up in posts over and over, acouple of these things are present here and they are not productive, 1 is if a new person comes in with some info that some may may not agree with, it becomes overly important to find out this persons true identity. 2 is this issue of proof. It seems to me we need neither to have these types of discussions, most people on here wouldn't believe either the persons real name or the proof they offer. I guess we either choose to comment or not, believe or not. The other stuff really doesn't matter
Summerblues		#36	[-]
Posts: 5 (26-Dec-07 16:36:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Comparing the way players are treated in Schaumburg to the way any team in indy ball treats its players isn't even close. It's truly a unique situation. With all the ordeals the players and coaches have to deal with in Schaumburg it can be very difficult to play consistent. Most guys that play indy ball aren't looking for nor expecting millions, but they are looking for respect. As far as I can tell this is non-existent in Flyer land. We don't know all the facts about what has gone on from a player standpoint and an ownership standpoint. I think it's important to remember this when we speculate.
BillyChapel14		#37	[-]
Posts: 433 (27-Dec-07 04:28:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	AAA forever wrote: Second, apparently you have not heard everything regarding paychecks last year. You do not have all of your facts. Then enlighten me on what I haven't heard, if I do not have the facts, then fill in the blanks. Thanks Harry
BarkeepND		#38	[-]
Posts: 380 (27-Dec-07 05:50:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BillyChapel14 wrote: AAA forever wrote: Second, apparently you have not heard everything regarding paychecks last year. You do not have all of your facts. Then enlighten me on what I haven't heard, if I do not have the facts, then fill in the blanks. Thanks Harry well for one, the fact is AAA forever ISN'T Harry Berrios.
ehrnsberger		#39	[-]
Posts: 43 (27-Dec-07 12:41:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I've been keeping up with this thread for awhile and thought I would comment on a few things. First of all, I have played for 3 teams in the NoL (KC, St Paul, Joliet). All three of these teams treated us players completely different. I won't go into detail, just wanted to make it known that all teams aren't run the same way. Secondly, the paycheck issue in Schaumburg has been a quite a hotbed of discussion here. Normally I don't wanna get involved in issues that dont concern me but I wanted to clear some things up. If you remember, the reason I joined this site was to inform the fans on certain things and to make sure truths were told and not lies that would/could hurt people or their reputation. Having said that, this is what I was told by 5 different Schaumburg players, all at different times and face to face. I don't like to make assumptions but when 5 guys tell me the same thing it's hard not to believe them. First, they all said this had been going on all year. In fact, one player was still owed money from May and June the last week of the season. It's not so much that they weren't getting paychecks, they were getting them at below their salary. A typical pay period is 15 days, yet they were being paid for only 12 or so. Again, this is what I was told. There may have been a perfectly good explanation for it I don't know. As for the last series, I think anyone that works would want and expect their paycheck on time. That is the duty of any employer. It states in our contracts that we must be paid on the days specified by the league. Did they have a reason to *+%++, yes. Did they go about it the wrong way, yes. I think alot of it strung from the season long issue with paychecks and it just came to a head at the end. Again, I'm not claiming to know everything but this is what I was told by multiple players. Schaumburg has been a successful franchise for many years, so I'm sure they will get things straightened out on and off the field.
JohnU11		#40	[-]
Posts: 71 (27-Dec-07 13:45:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks, Chad, for this. I agree that there might be a good explanation. I'd like to hear it, though. As an aside, think Diaz will be back? Man oh man, can he hit a baseball!

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